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May 4, 2013
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Sorry, but your opression is in another community by Marsmar Sorry, but your opression is in another community by Marsmar
After subjects like Atheism Plus, Donglegate, and Feminists Frequency have been circling around the internet for a while, I think it's time I address the core issue that these organizations/events/scams are talking about and that's the underrepresentation of women in these domains and at times, the deliberate attempt to keep women out of them.

Now based on the above comic, I'm sure my position is clear on a lot of matters. Are women underrepresented in these domains? Technically, yes. For the most part in the atheist/coding/gaming community as far as demographics go, it's mostly male. Why is that? This is where I disagree with the likes of Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian. The primary argument for them is that, to paraphrase what Sarkeesian said during both her Ted Talks session and a CNN interview, is that there's a "boy's club going on and the gaming [and to others, atheist/coding] community and the men want to keep the social norm so they can keep all the special privileges that go with being on top."

For this rebuttal, I will be looking primarily at the gaming community though some of the arguments can apply to the coding and atheist community as well. The primary problem with that claim is based on what the community is about. Gaming. Playing video games, getting the high score, being that one boss, and finishing the game. Due to the nature of video games (especially online gaming today), the role of gender (and race, religion, political beliefs, etc) are becoming less of an issue as anyone is able to play the game and the only requirement to be accepted in the community for the most part is to be good at the games and show a decent amount of respect for the source material. Are you able to run to the enemy base and capture their flag? Yes? Good, you're in. Do you think that "The Legend of Zelda" games are sexist because Zelda gets kidnapped all the time and demand that to change based only on your offense and feelings? No? Good, you're in!

Now sure people online can be total assholes. Especially on X-Box live where every other person apparently fucked your mother and have keen insights on your sexual preferences. But these are the loud assholes who take attention away from the friendly (or at least, cooperative), hard working gamers who play to win. Most gamers are actually quite friendly if you get to know them better and what unites them more than anything is the love for the game. Look at the Team Fortress and Minecraft community. They come together for their love of virtual hats and awesome builds. They make parodies, comics, hacks, texture packs, strategies, and a whole number of things for the game they enjoy. The same goes for fans of Mario, Halo, Metroid, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Kirby, Call of Duty, Pokemon, and a lot more. So when someone comes along and say that the games they really enjoy are sexist and oppressive and need to be changed to fit that person's feelings, naturally they get pissed off.

And speaking of loud mouthed assholes hiding the majority, contrary to what these people would have you believe, there's plenty of women in the gaming/atheist/tech community who don't see those things as sexist or oppressive. They might want to see more prominent women out there but they aren't the kind of people who blame the lack of representation on the patriarchy of a boys' club trying to keep the norm. They just like the hobby/community and want the best for it, not for it to mold itself completely to fit their tastes.

THAT is why there's such a backlash against people like Rebecca Watson, Andrea Richards, and Anita Sarkeesian. Not because the community is a seeping pull of misogynists. Not because it's all a boy's club trying to keep their privilege. Not because there's a huge conspiracy against women who want to get into coding/atheism/gaming. It's because those people like the community they're in and don't want to it be changed. They don't want overly politically correct, sensitive crybabies taking a lot of the fun out of their hobbies. These are people of various different genders, races, and with the exception of atheism, religions who come together because they have a common interest. Forcing them to change that based on false premises of sexism is rude, intrusive, and utterly insane.

Sorry, but your oppression is in another community.

Good videos on the subject:
Feminist Frequency/Anita Sarkeesian/Tropes Vs Women in Video Games
[link] Feminism vs FACTS part 2 by Thunderf00t (addresses Feminist Frequency)
[link] Who's the Damsel Now? by The Amazing Atheist (Points out the problem with Antia censoring comments and not allowing the other side to make their arguments as well as address her inability to handle trolling)
[link] More than a Damsel in a Dress: A Response by KiteTales (points out how Peace and Zelda are actually viewed as incredibly important in video game lore and how Anita is ignoring many significant facts about the characters' roles and personalities)
[link] Sexism and Sterotypes in Video Games? by KiteTales (points out how male character also fall into several chiche/sexist tropes and gives a good list of well rounded, interesting female video game characters)
[link] Anita Sarkeesian Part 1: The College Graduate by Investig8tiveJounralism (Shows how rigorous Anita's views on what makes a good female character is based on an essay she wrote about gender characteristics. Unrelated to but applies heavily to her Tropes Vs Women series)
[link] Anita Sarkeesian Part 2: Burqa Beach Party by Investig8tiveJournalism (Points out flaws in her reasoning and how she's insulting an art form without having a good understanding of it.)

Donglegate/Adria Richards
[link] DONGLEGATE by Thunderf00t (Points out the error in Richards ways and her hypocrisy)
[link] Let Me Dangle your Dongle by Dildo Faggins (gives an overview of everything that happened during Donglegate and the problem with it all)
[link] FEMINISM vs JOKES by The Amazing Atheist (uses donglegate to show how the over sensitivity of feminism is not only annoying but can have serious negative consequences on people's lives)

Atheism Plus/Its members and leaders/Free Thought Blogs
[link] This is Atheism Plus by MykeruMedia (An Orwellian Propaganda parody of Atheism Plus)
[link] "Atheism Plus": an open letter by C0nc0rdance (gives advice to the Atheism Plus community on how to improve their standing with the rest of the atheist community. Many of his advice points out important flaws on how Atheism Plus is operated)
[link] Atheism+: The Matt Dillahunty Experience by Noelplum99 (Uses one of Atheism Plus' most prominent members, Matt Dillahunty and the trouble he got into with the community to highlight how insane and irrational the Atheism Plus community is)
[link] Why 'Feminism' is Poisoning Atheism parts 1, 2, and 3 (Link to part 1) by Thunderf00t (Exactly what the title says. Relates heavily to AtheismPlus and the censorship it promotes.)
[link] FTB & Watson: Dawkins Is a White Supremacist by Intergalmath (shows the kind of low tactics AtheismPlus/FTB people would stoop to)
[link] Oh, Blaghag, About Your Safe Space Demands... by Intergalmath (Points out the absurdity of the professional victimhood Atheism Plusses/FTB promote on a regular basis)
[link] Skepchicks Can't Demographic! by Intergalmath (Addresses the demographic argument and debunks the idea that atheism is primarily a boy's club/male centered community)

[link] mras and feminists arguing at u of t mra event by 18upper (The feminist in the second and fourth panel is based on the woman in the video. No, she is not a parody/strawman (oh, I'm osrry, Straw womyn))
Add a Comment:
the-green-gallad Featured By Owner May 12, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
you made a big type o wen you ment to say what goes on you said what feminist say gose on and a bigger type o was when you ment to say what assholes say you said what is actually happening
Diacraft Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
/pol/ is that you?
Marsmar Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2013
Scaley-Randy Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2013  Student Writer
I think there are more underlying problems in video game's portrayal of women than simple objectification... 
Marsmar Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2013
It's what is brought up the most. 
Scaley-Randy Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2013  Student Writer
True which makes it all the funnier how they focus on objectification rather than say, the underlying daddy issues or the undermining of independent women.
SausageMassage Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2013
"underrepresentation of women in these domains"

Because their spatial intelligence is practically non-existent and so as in driving, flying, playing sports, shooting and doing math...

....bitches suck at video games.
Marsmar Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2013
Now that's just absurd. Anyone can play video games and taking the most extreme opposite position of the people I was addressing to the point where you sound as bad as they do helps no one.
SausageMassage Featured By Owner Sep 2, 2013
Anybody *can*, but it's really a question of aptitude: as a general rule females score lower in visuospatial thinking. That and a natural inclination to more feminine activities is a lot of the reason they won't be crowding gamestop on PS4's launch date -- not because; according to feminist spin, the game industry or the patriarchy conspires to oppress the starving female demographic.

It's just a reflection of sex differences. And that this controversy persists is an example of how ideology trumps facts in society.

They deliberately deny the fact that WOMEN AREN'T MEN.

That's why if you or I suggest a biological basis for female under-representation in any area of life, no matter how frankly or how cagily we phrase it, we will be virtually universally accosted as misogynistic monsters and, depending on where we say it, quite probably banned or fired.…
Itachi-Spirit-w0lf Featured By Owner May 19, 2014
You do realize visuospatial thinking and spatial intelligence is acquired at a young age and that "natural inclination" is actually societal thinking which is by the way varying culture to culture. (Yes, this is true. I didn't study it psychology for nothing) Also show me a study and where that study was done and how much time those people had performing the visuospatial activity. While I don't think there's a conspiracy going on, there's no doubt Marmar makes a point in calling your statements absurd because they are.
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